Doctors Against Forced Organ Harvesting

On September 30, 2014, the World Organization to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong (WOIPFG) published an excerpt of a phone conversation with Bai Shuzhong, the former Minister of Health for the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) General Logistics Department. Bai Shuzhong held this position between 1998 and 2004. The role is equivalent to the Minister of Health, but related to military hospitals. His tenure of office coincided with the onset of the persecution of Falun Gong in 1999 and the exponential increase of transplant figures between 1999 and 2004 (from <3,000/year to ~20,000/year). WOIPFG states that Bai Shuzhong admitted during a phone call that Jiang Zemin, former Chinese Communist Party Chief, had “instructed” the harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners’ organs for transplantation. Bai said in a telephone conversation, “Back then it was Chairman Jiang … there was an order, a sort of instruction, that said to carry out such things, organ transplantation. … Because back then after Chairman Jiang issued the order, we all did a lot of anti-Falun Gong work.” DAFOH interviewed WOIPFG spokesman Dr. Wang Zhiyuan on this phone investigation. DAFOH: When did the phone call take place?

Dr. Wang: September 2014.

DAFOH: Do you have a proof from your phone company that you indeed called China and not just a fellow Chinese in the neighborhood?

Dr. Wang: We have the telephone company record and recording of the Chinese operator transferring the call. Once this report and recording are released, those who are familiar with Bai’s voice, and those in the CCP’s security organs can all listen to it and they can identify Bai’s voice. If the recording is not real, the CCP would not have been so quiet.

DAFOH: How can you be sure that the person that you attempted to call is the person that you actually talked to on the phone?

Dr. Wang: Before the phone call was made, we did some research on Bai’s work place, his activities, and his contact information. During the phone call, the investigator verified Bai’s identity.

DAFOH: How does WOIPFG verifies the validity of its investigative findings?

Dr. Wang: With some analysis, his answer seems to be the natural reaction. First, his answer was logical without any contradictions. Second, it matches the inner working style of the CCP; there was probably a report about captive Falun Gong practitioners’ organs being used for transplant surgeries. The report was pushed up the chain of command, and no one dares to approve it, until it reached Jiang. Thirdly, the language use is different from the everyday usage. It is something unique to the CCP, no one from outside can fake it.

DAFOH: Is the Minister of Health for the Chinese PLA General Logistics Department located in Beijing?

Dr. Wang: Yes.

DAFOH: Is his role similar to the civil Minister of Health with all the knowledge and insights? Was he in the position to know all the information that he shared on the phone, or was he not qualified enough to know this type of information?

Dr. Wang: The Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) General Logistics Department controls 4 military medical universities (reduced to 3 military universities now), and all numbered military hospitals. The PLA General Logistics Department’s Ministry of Health is lower in ranking comparing to the non-military Ministry of Health. But it is the highest ranked health related office in the military system. Because of the military’s lack of transparency, it’s been playing a major role in organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners. Bai Shuzhong has probably more insider information than the non-military Minister of Health. Bai Shuzhong held the highest-ranking administrative position in Chinese military health system, which is the main entity to carry out orders from former CCP Chairman, Jiang Zemin. Bai Shuzhong’s position enabled him to have direct access to the directives from the CCP Central. He was the Minister of Health of the PLA General Logistics Department from 1998 to 2004, when the persecution of Falun Gong was most severe. Therefore, Bai Shuzhong has comprehensive knowledge of the situation.

DAFOH: Were you surprised that a former military health minister was so frank on the phone to an unknown person?

Dr. Wang: Bai Shuzhong was not talking to a stranger, but to someone he must respect and obey. Bai felt that he must answer the questions to the best of his knowledge. We will not release the key information how WOIPFG conducts investigations to the public. If necessary, we are ready to present the evidence to the international court.

DAFOH: Who do you think did Bai Shuzhong thought you would be? Did he think you are an investigator from China or from abroad?

Dr. Wang: Bai was very clear who he was talking to. It was someone inside China. Bai knew that he must treat the questions seriously.

DAFOH: Taking into consideration the Chinese mentality to speak on the phone, is your impression that he spoke the truth? Or was he nervous or afraid?

Dr. Wang: Bai treats the investigator as someone whose questions must be answered seriously and immediately.

DAFOH: Which part of the interview is most surprising and important to you?

Dr. Wang: The important part is Jiang’s directive.

DAFOH: What is Bai Shuzhong doing now?

Dr. Wang: Bai Shuzhong (born 1944) is currently the deputy chairman of the Chinese Medical Association.

DAFOH: Thank you.

Original article